autotrader.ca private seller scams

I was looking around on autotrader.ca for a used luxury vehicle and I have come across multiple TGTBT ads, where there are low mileage vehicles that are anywhere between $2-$5K less than the average price. So, I searched *nationally* for *private* sellers, and found duplicate ads across Canada, say one in Quebec, and the same vehicle in Vancouver.

Note that these ads do not have any phone numbers, but only email contact.

I decided to email one, using a new free email address I just created, and to check the response. The car I was inquiring about was a 2010 Cadillac SRX selling for $21,500 in Ontario (identical ad posted in BC). Here are the emails I received, my replies are in italics:

From: [email protected]

Hi,

The vehicle is still available for sale, was well maintained, it's in perfect working order, never been damaged.The price, as stated in the ad, is $21550.I retired and moved to my wife's home country, Czech Republic. I shipped a few of my belongings here from St John, NB and wanted to take the vehicle with me but decided against it. It is now in storage at the shipping company in St John. I will pay all fees to send it back. You will also receive all necessary documents in order to finalize the purchase. Email me back if you're interested and have any questions.

Hi,

Do you have a carproof report available? Or do you have a picture of the VIN number? I am interested in this vehicle. Do you have any more pictures?

Thanks

Scott Rowley <[email protected]> wrote:

The carproof and photos are attached to my email. I have used the company and was very pleased. They will take care of everything: shipping and insurance, receiving payment, all necessary documents and have the power of attorney to sign the bill of sale. They do a test drive, run a mechanical inspection, check options, interior/exterior condition and will send the inspection report to you. The payment will be sent to them and delivery to your address will begin as soon as they receive the funds. When the vehicle is delivered you will have a 5 days inspection period for an overall condition and mechanical inspection. You will also verify all the documents during this inspection period. If you agree to buy it, after the inspection period, the payment will be sent to me. If you find any problems, although I'm sure you won't, you'll receive a full refund before the vehicle is picked up. You will not have to pay any fees of any kind regardless of your decision.

Thanks,

NOTE: The photos he sent are the exact same from the autotrader ads, no close-up of the VIN as requested. He also sent a CarProof report, in which the car had no accidents, but he could've obtained this easily from another seller. The CarProof report states the car in the report is from Quebec.

Thanks, what is the name of the company? Is it in Quebec?



Scott Rowley <[email protected]> wrote:

The company is Masten Logistics GmbH. Everything is explained on their site : *REMOVED* If you scroll down you will find a copy of the sales agreement.

Thanks,

NOTE: I used a proxy server to visit the "company" website (I really don't want them to get my IP address in their stats counter), and found the following contact information:

Address:
Am Ballinkai 7,
21129 Hamburg, Germany
*REMOVED*
Fax:+1 (206) 388-4975

Emails:
Customer Support: [email protected] Department: [email protected] Inspection: [email protected] Department: [email protected]

Note that the number is a Seattle-based number... possibly a "free" internet phone number such as those from google etc.. When I searched the number, it was used in other scams. If you find a link to that bogus website, please do not visit it as it may contain malicious software. Do not email the above email addresses for your safety.

I replied to the last email...

Thanks, what is your number in the Czech? I can call you in a few hours to discuss more in detail

I was really not going to call him of course..

Scott Rowley <[email protected]> wrote:

The phone is not working here yet, just the internet. Let me know what questions you have. I'm going to bed soon.

Thanks,

I reported the ads to autotrader, and they were removed... I replied back..

I no longer see the ad posted? I guess it is sold?

Of course, no reply back from the scammer.. Be careful if you see cars with prices that are too good to be true... If anyone does a search for "private" seller across the nation, they'll be bound to run into these scammers with too good to be true prices

Welcome to Scamwarners death2scammers and that's a nice piece of detective work.

The UK Autotrader site is overrun with fraudulent adverts and between 5.00pm and 9.00am it really isn't worth using it because any search for a bargain will only turn up scams. On a daily basis I flag up between 100 and 300 fraudulent adverts and I note them in this thread, and I only mention the most obvious ones.

http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=82849&start=330

The scammers are hacking dealer accounts on a daily basis so it's no protection to avoid private sellers. I can't keep up this level of scrutiny for ever and I may just sample adverts once a week in future and I would recommend that people avoid all ad sites, as Autotrader aren't any worse than other ad sites.

Yeah, it is getting ridiculous. There was a warning on the Canadian autotrader site about a phony dealership called "double eagle auto" or something of the sort. Had a phony address, and I believe one guy got ripped off for ~$24K.

I looked up some TGTBT cars again last night, sent the automated email to inquire about 5 of them, and my old friend "Scott Rowley" appeared once again:

Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 20:33:39 +0300
Subject: 2010 Acura TSX
From: [email protected]

Hi,

The vehicle is still available for sale, was well maintained, it's in perfect working order, never been damaged.The price, as stated in the ad, is $12700.I retired and moved to my wife's home country, Czech Republic. I shipped a few of my belongings here from St John, NB and wanted to take the vehicle with me but decided against it. It is now in storage at the shipping company in St John. I will pay all fees to send it back. You will also receive all necessary documents in order to finalize the purchase. Email me back if you're interested and have any questions.

Thanks,

I somewhat feel like scambaiting this guy... Any thoughts?

Wow... I just saw your link... hacking the dealer accounts can easily fool many unsuspecting buyers. I guess there's so many that the people who run autotrader don't really have the time to do anything about it.

There must have been between 100 and 200 fraudulent adverts last night and I'm only observing one UK vehicle website. The appalling thing is that this is by definition organised crime and I have not seen the slightest recognition of it by the UK authorities. The scale of it is quite mind boggling and between 5.00pm and 9.00am (outside office hours) the scammers effectively take over the site.

Many people won't be fooled, but simply by making it appear that the site is filled with cars at giveaway prices, those desperate for a bargain are most likely to be scammed. It's using a 'shotgun' tactic to snare victims by blitzing the site for a short period. Even if they only get 2 victims from a week's worth of 700 - 1,440 fraudulent adverts, that nets them £500,000 annually (with a basic value of £5,000 per advert).

Underlying it all is the ease with which scammers can open fraudulent bank accounts in the UK, because without bank accounts to receive the money the fraud simply wouldn't work. This may be why the scam isn't so widespread in Canada, the USA and Australia though I have seen very similar examples in all those countries.

To make matters worse our courts are pathetically weak. Unfortunately this leaves Autotrader UK very vulnerable to these crime gangs and I'm not sure myself what the solution is apart from tightening up on bank regulation as 'money mule' accounts underly a lot of UK fraud.

Isn't there any way the banks can close these fradulent accounts?!?!? I know the scammers in North America will probably ask to send the money using Western Union. I've read the threads about the fake paypal scams too, with the "over-charged my account" fraud.

Man, 700-1440 fraudlent ads?!! This is definitely hurting the business of Autotrader.uk. I suggest they start charging a small fee per ad, like they do in the newspapers.

All I can say death2scammers, as a UK citizen, is that there are many UK institutions that don't operate as they should and aren't as competent as they'd have everyone believe. As retired bank staff I'm not impressed with their current levels of their competence either and it's very sloppy to think that accounts involved in fraud won't 'bite' them big time at some future date as some banks have already found.

Well, over time, the banks will feel the bite. The sad part is that they're most likely to compensate for their losses by upping everyone's bank fees. Nobody wins except the fraudsters in these situations.Now back to the Autotrader scams... I think people should just avoid using it in the UK. I am shocked at the amount of fradulent ads!!

I don't want to go in to too much detail about what's going on but the main problem is created by the fraudsters' phishing dealer accounts with Autotrader UK and the smaller dealer is probably easiest to phish.

Considering that many small dealers are quite likely to be one person operating alone and I presume that posting adverts automatically generates charges, having up to 100 adverts posted on their account may well get their bank account blocked or shut.

Most people may be smart enough to avoid direct phishing attacks on their bank account but whenever you connect another service directly to your account you're providing a back door that can be phished to provide indirect access to your account. The scammer isn't directly stealing your money but is using your account to fund his attempted frauds.