Another scam from Cadiz?

I made an enquiry about a car for sale in an eBay auction. The car was a left-hand-drive Mazda MX5 and registered in Spain with photos. I didn't make a bid, as it became too expensive but was afterwards contacted by the seller saying the winning bidder was 'a timewaster' and asking if I'd like to buy the car for slightly less than the winning bid. I asked for some documents to establish the identity of the seller and the credentials of the car. The seller told me she was selling it on behalf of her daughter who had gone to England and sent scans of the vehicle's Spanish log book and a receipt from the local dealer with the car's registration on it. The seller's husband sent me a scan of his passport and his Spanish resident's permit. They had originally asked for a €500 deposit via PayPal from the winning bidder (in the eBay auction) but they didn’t ask me for money. They said they could pick me up from Jerez airport when I flew out to pick up the car. The advert said the car was a 2002 model - I became suspicious when I saw on the Spanish MoT that the car was first registered in 2001 and I saw that the logbook was a duplicate and that the car had a couple of features which I knew meant it could only have been registered at very the latest in 2000. At this point I said I was no longer interested in the car. I do not initially want to reproduce any emails revealing the identity of the seller and their family as it could be simply misleading advertising and not a scam – but having seen that there are a number of scams from people claiming to be in Cadiz I would like to check this all out in case it is a scam in order to alert other people and help prevent them falling foul of any swindles . . .

The scammer who says he's located in Cadiz is a regular and he has several postings of the script he uses here

http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47114&start=105

If he's sending you ID it can be relied on that it belongs to an innocent victim. The e-mail addies he's using and phone number if you get one would be useful, though the experience is that he wants all contact to be by e-mail.

If you can't view a car before paying - don't buy it. If he's selling a car in England that's located in Spain he's an idiot but more likely a scammer.

I'd be interested to see his ebay account if he's operating the 'second chance' scam.

No, The scammer you refer to is not the person I have been in contact with. I'm happy to supply the email address/phone number/eBay ID of the person I was in contact with but is there a way I can do this privately instead of posting it publicly? I'm also happy to be contacted on my mobile but again prefer not to list the number publicly.

Here is a copy of the email exchange in reverse chronological order with identifying details removed. I don't think it is a scam but just want to check it out in case ...

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my landline number is 0034 xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (full landline number was supplied)

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Thank you. I had a similar problem travelling long distance to buy a a car and had been told a number of things about it which weren't true which caused me a lot of hassle - and driving back across France from Belgium was nearly killed in a car crash as a result!

My phone number is 0033 xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (full number supplied – but this was mine!) - I'd like to have a land line for you too please


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Will sort out the documents that you would like to look at.


Just wondering if you can let me have your telephone number so that I may call you with any other questions that you may have. I know what its like to travel a distance to look at a car as we once travelled to England to buy a car, being told that it was all good, but when arriving it was far from good, and then we had to fly back here and carry on looking.
It would be alot better for you to fly into Jerez airport rather than Seville as this is much closer to us.


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Just finalising plans. You mentioned having a new cambelt fitted recently - could you please send a copy of that as well as any other receipts of major work done on the car.

As well as the original registration date data mentioned in my previous email - is part of the registration document missing from your previous scan?

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The nearest Airport to us is Jerez de la Frontera, and if you fly into this airport we would be able to collect you as it is only 30 minutes away. Seville is 1 and a half hours away, but there is a train to San Fernando from there and we would be able to pick you up from San Fernando train station.
Here are copies of all the documents that you wanted to see.
Speak soon.


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Thank you! That is very clear

Please could you also send me a copy of the Spanish registration document and the Spanish MoT and Tax

And please let me know where your nearest airport is and whether there is public transport to Chiclana de la Frontera

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Here is a copy of the clutch replacement, it has the VIN number on it.
I had a new roof fitted on it last year, I bought the mohair roof through ebay and had it fitted over here in Spain, but I do not have the receipt for this, but it is an excellent roof and look really nice. You would not be disappointed with it.


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I've thought a bit more and I'm definitely interested.

I do need to know one thing - what is the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)? I need this as I have to check with Mazda as not all MX5s meet French import requirements.

I would also very much like to see a copy of the invoice/receipt for the clutch replacement and the new roof. I know you sent me a copy of the service manual but I'd like to see the receipts if possible.


PS I could phone you to discuss details if you have a landline

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Sorry to hear you were messed about.

Give me 24hours to think about it - one big problem for me is getting to the Cadiz area (I live in France) and there doesn't seem to be an easy way to do it. I'll check some more - if you have any ideas about transport please let me know.

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Just thought I would write to you to let you know that the highest bidder was actually a time waster and never came through with any money for the car. I was wondering if you were still interested in it and I would take 3250.00 pounds for it.
I look forward to hearing from you.


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Thanks again for all your info.

Unfortunately getting to Cadiz is much more expensive than I thought and as the auction is going up more I have to let it go.

Good luck with your sale!

You can use the PM button on the right hand side of each post to send a PM (private message) that won't appear in public to send a message to any member.

I cannot tell whether or not the seller is genuine. However it seems a lot of trouble to go to, to buy a car to import into the UK that is left-hand drive and will immediately lose a lot of value. The best market to sell it would obviously be Spain and importation in to the UK wouldn't be hassle-free:

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/registering-an-imported-vehicle

As well as that there won't be any way to perform an HPI check and your insurance company may raise your premiums on what they may consider an 'exotic' import, simply because it's left-hand drive.

Unless you're buying a rare and exotic car and you're prepared to pay the extra costs, it just isn't worthwhile to buy a car from abroad and, in some countries, there is a risk they won't actually re-register a car with a different drive configuration.

Agreed it's a lot of trouble - and surprising that they advertised it on the UK eBay as it is a Spanish reg car (with Spanish plates) in Spain.

Just a bit of info regarding importing cars, which I've done quite a bit of: Pretty much any car which was initially registered in an EU country after 1996 is eligible for a European Certificate of Conformity (CoC) which enables you to import the vehicle to any other EU state. All manufacturers supply them at a cost - between £50 and £200, and some even supply them for free (apparently Porsche do this, though I haven't checked and am not in a position to buy one ...). Any principal dealership from any country can supply them - France is one of the most expensive countries for CoCs so it is usually better to get one in the UK or Germany or Spain or wherever, even if you will need to use it to import to France.

Cars which were originally registered in Japan, which is another country where cars are right-hand drive, do not meet CoC standards and, although in some circumstances they can be imported in to the UK, they cannot by and large, be subsequently imported to other EU states. It is particularly interesting financially to import Japanese cars to the UK as, in Japan, they are punitively taxed increasingly with age in Japan and so are v cheap second-hand and also there is a max speed limit of 55mph in Japan so they tend not to be thrashed and it hardly snows there and hence no salt on the roads and hence v little corrosion - and of course they are right hookers. Obviously lots of potential for scams here but I do know several people who have imported from Japan without problems - best to be on the lookout ...

That's enough metal-head stuff. Now back to exposing scammers . . .

Hi TerranceBoyce, Thanks for the PM info - I've just tried to PM you but get an error message: 'The requested users to be added do not exist.' Sorry to be thick but I don't totally see how it works.

The PM system should work okay but don't worry about that. The person doesn't appear to be using a tactic we recognise as the standard approach used by someone we'd consider likely to be a scammer. Nonetheless the situation is unusual for the reasons I've mentioned and there are always going to be greater costs and risks buying a car from abroad. If you're doing something unusual with greater inherent risks, of which I've mentioned a few, it's best you decide how best to protect yourself as I'm no expert in the complexities of buying a car from abroad.

Though I'm sure it's happened, I've never myself seen a foreign registered left hand drive car advertised for sale on a UK ad site. It's really quite a rare occurrence.

The same car has been relisted with a different seller, different photos and a different location - I'd still like to send a PM to TerranceBoyce but remain baffled by the procedure. (There are actually quite a few folk who sell non-UK registered lhd cars for export to mainland Europe - often people who've been living abroad, in the services etc)

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Do you see where it says this on TB's profile

Posts: 1450
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:05 pm
Location: Zippy, George and Bungle

Under that you will see a little PM, if you click on that it will open the private message, then you fill in a title, your message then send....

The thing is that all scams have a 'sell by date' as people get wise to the tactics and as UK bank accounts become more difficult to use and people know better that they should never make any payment before viewing a vehicle, so the scammers will look for new tactics. The idea of selling a foreign car to the UK market is a possibility as it addresses many of the reasons why scams are likely to fail currently but it really isn't a plausible option.

It appears that UK bank accounts are becoming much harder to use for money laundering and there's no sensible reason why a UK vehicle can't be viewed before paying. Moving the point of sale abroad addresses those problems but the market for selling foreign cars in the UK is limited and, even though most UK buyers won't know quite how difficult it is, they won't even bother thinking of buying one.

This is beginning to look more and more like a scam.

The irony being that the circumstances you describe are so convoluted that it isn't the normal tactic of scammers who operate in a very predictable way. The whole purpose for them is that they get you to make payment without seeing the vehicle and anything else just wastes their time and won't earn them any money. Where the scammer is situated makes no difference and a scammer in China can perform the fraud as easily as someone based in the UK, as long as they have a local means to receive your money, though I've been asked to send money to Czechoslovakia.

Having looked at hundreds if not thousands of adverts it's easy to see that there are many other types of scam going on too, but the potential of stealing £5,000 or more without risk makes it inevitable that selling vehicles that don't exist won't stop in the near future.

We know that one gang advertises agricultural and construction machinery from UK websites to Eastern Europe and they have caught many victims who didn't ask to inspect the machines before paying. If inspecting the vehicle is too much trouble then buying from abroad is far too risky.