How does this scam work?

Hi guys, I'm new here.

I was wondering how this scam works.

I found a car online at a really good price. In fact it was too good to be true.

So I email the owner and a day later get a reply back saying that they still have the car. They live at the other end of the country though but are willing to meet me half way.

So then I get an email asking for a western union money transfer to make sure that I turn up.

So I ask them for their name so I can transfer the money so I can report them.

Then I get this back from them:

Hello,

I am sorry but I think you don't understand my proposal. I am not asking you for a payment in advance on my name ! I will never ask you to send money to me before you will see the car! This is an exchange insurance for me and for you that our meeting will take place and we can leave relaxed our towns because we will be 100% sure that the other one will be there as we agreed!
As I told you, your wife or good friend must go to any Western Union in your town and ask to make a personal transfer ( Money in Minutes ) on YOUR NAME in Liverpool. So you will be the beneficiary of the money, not me! You will appear on the transfer paper as Receiver of the money and your wife or friend will be the Sender. We will take our money back when we will meet, we will go together to the Western Union in Liverpool.
This is just a proof of coming! After that, I will scan this document and send it to you attached on your email as my coming proof. And you must do the same thing, after you have done the transfer, email me the transfer document. This is my only condition and without this i will not come to Liverpool for this meeting, I am sorry. I believe a good deal is based of 100% safety for both sides and with this transfers i want to add a plus of security for me and for you as well that our meeting will take place. But before meeting this is my condition and i hope you will respect it, i will not negotiate.

Thank you

A well tried and tested scam.

He will have an associate in a local office who will allow him to draw the money as long as he has the MTCN even without ID. If he couldn't draw the money it wouldn't prove anything. All he's demonstrating to you is that he has a way round the system. What I'm suggesting isn't far fetched. A lot of people have been caught out by this variation.

It's pretty straightforward.

People assume that you have to show ID to pick up money from WU, so they assume it is safe. It's not.

As Terrance said, the scammer has every intention of picking up the money himself. This "send money to yourself or a friend" tactic is extremely common in rental scams. An associate at the local WU is a common way, but there are other ways he can do it, even without an associate.

-contact WU, pretending to be you, and change the receiver name. This can be done on the phone, and basically he can use the info on the receipt to "prove" that he is you.
-take advantage of provisions that have been put in place to allow people to pick up money without ID in certain situations (they allow this so that you can send money to a friend or family member if they are traveling and their purse or wallet is stolen.)

Thanks for the replies guys. What should I do now? Who should I report it to?

He is undoubtedly using fake information, so reporting to the authorities won't do any good, I'm afraid.

Definitely report the ad to the listing site, though. Most listing sites have a way to flag fraudulent ads.

Ok I will report him to the website, thanks.

So am I right in thinking that he is from Liverpool? Is that the only WU place he can pick the money up from?

When any Western Union payment is involved you have no information from the scammer that's true.

You don't know his name or where he's located, and he could be in Africa, the Far East or Liverpool, but his writing style suggests he is of African origin.

You could always ask him to fax you a copy of the VSC, but don't rely on that as 100% proving a seller is genuine. They can be resourceful and pick cars to sell that they have found matching VSC's online, but it's a good thing to throw at a seller in the UK as a check out of the blue.

Any money the scammer makes is 100% profit so an hour or two looking for documents online is no hardship for them. I've seen some very good photo-shopped documents on car sites in the USA.

I emailed the website, probably won't do any good but at least I let them knew.

These scum bags expected me to loose £1700 and then travel all the way to Liverpool for nothing.

And I bet some people fall for this type of thing all the time, it's very sad really.

Yes dt78 and they treat it like a day's fishing and he'll have made the price very attractive to get as many potential victims as possible. He may have other victims lined up and it's almost certain he'll get one victim this week.

He'll try different sites and classified ads, and then he can switch to offering to buy goods, which involves a slightly different variation in expecting the seller to pay an imaginary shipper to collect the goods.

These people are professional scammers in the true sense of the word, and any people using these ad sites without knowing the risks is going to get burned.

I knew something was up from the start because the price was so good. And I was waiting for a request for some money up front.

But I wasn't sure how it worked the way he was trying to do it.

I feel sorry for anyone else who falls for this and can't imagine how they will feel if they turn up in Liverpool or someplace else and then realise it's a scam.

I have all the emails and the ip address if anyone wants them or is interested or whatever. Thanks again guys.

Another way to check out these people is to get them to give you their phone number to call them. If they give you a 44 (0)70 number, or one with a foreign dialling code, you know it's a scammer. The 44 (0)70 number is a redirect number that hides the real country the scammer is located.

Thanks Terence. I'm not going to bother emailing him back, but that's useful to know. Thank you.

Oops, I forgot.

Could you also post the email address he used, and if he gave you a phone number, post it as well? He is likely running other scams with the same info, and having it posted can help others to avoid the scam.

Often these scammers are not even in the country they are claiming. Many are in Malaysia or an African country.
With a corrupt agent, they can often pick up the money in another country--but even without an inside man, the money can typically be picked up anywhere in the country of the receiver. A lot of scammers use mules--sometimes accomplices, but often innocent victims who think they have legitimate jobs or that they are collecting a debt for a loved ones--to pick up the money and forward it to them.

can't imagine how they will feel if they turn up in Liverpool or someplace else and then realize it's a scam.

Unfortunately things like this do happen far too often. And the scammers simply don't care.

The scammer will always be offering a perfect car at what is usually a ridiculously low price.

It's what every buyer is after and the scammer knows he can rush you in to losing all caution.

It's too easy for the scammer, and he'll pressure you by pointing out he has a lot of other buyers. What he won't tell you is that he'll sell the fictitious car to each of the other buyers.

Remember it's your money, and if you let go of it without checking you will lose it and have nothing.

A few simple rules and you'll not lose bargains, but you'll get rid of the majority of scammers.

For the UK.

1. Get the seller's phone number and use it to speak to him. If it's a foreign number or a UK one in the form 44 (0)70 it's a scam. The average 419 scammer will be easy to recognise as you won't understand much of what he says.

2. Ask him to scan a copy of the VSC and send it to you by e-mail. If he can't or won't do it, he won't be able to transfer the car to you anyway. (Scammers will get documents to use by answering adverts themselves, so anyone being asked for a VSC should mark it with the web address of the advert across the front to prevent it being recycled by a scammer).

3. Get the seller to photo the tax disc on the car with their mobile phone and send you a legible copy.

4. If you're buying a car in the UK don't use anything but a bank account to make payment. If the scammer wants to use Western Union or MoneyGram - walk away - it's a scam.

These rules won't guarantee 100% protection, but regrettably the scammer will prefer to work on easier victims, and there won't be a shortage. You won't be losing a bargain, but saving yourself from losing your money.

Bear in mind - it isn't a bargain if you end up losing all your money.

If the seller won't comply with simple requests - walk away and let them scam someone else.

This is his name, email and IP address:

Kieran Marsh
[email protected]
65.55.111.73

And low and behold I had another email this morning regarding another car advert I had replied to.

Exact same wording as the first except for the name and the millage on the car, so maybe the same person?

His name, email and IP address:

Finley Davies
[email protected]
65.55.111.71

Shall I try and get his phone number too?

Thanks for the replies