Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi and other commercial vehicles

Mod note: Duplicate post deleted - CW

Hi all

This is an active fraudster operating on eBay and other vehicle selling sites. V. Cristea / Sarah Hudson / [email protected] / [email protected] / [email protected] /

My father recently attempted to purchase a Citroen Relay 2.2 HDi on eBay from this person. He unfortunately did not realise it was a scam and transferred £3,250 via bank transfer (Barclays account to Barclays account).

Upon realising it was a scam, he informed the bank to attempt to halt the transfer. The clerk was able to confirm the funds (and a number of other, similar large transfer) were in the Payee's account however claimed that without authorisation from the police was 'unable' to block, hold or return the funds.

The account is clearly in a false name and uses a false address. Therefore Barclay's have allowed someone to open an account using false details and essentially are soliciting fraud by allowing this.

My father then spoke to the police, who said that they do not deal with Fraud cases, and that he must speak to ActionFraud (http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/) - a useless division of the police who do not actually take any 'Action' simply enter the details of the crime to a database so they can investigate (read put at the bottom of a pile!). A week later and several calls later we have received no update from ActionFraud. They are dragging there heels and essentially making it easy fro fraudsters to get away with this theft. Swift action to block the fraudsters account might have saved many people thousands of pound, and who know, maybe even led them to the criminal when he / she attempted to withdraw or transfer the money to another account.

So the division setup to combat fraud is so useless and slow they are actually making it easier for these people!

We have chased the police and followed up with Barclay's but keep going round and round in circles without any progress.

Does anyone on this forum know the law concerning a banks responsibility in such cases, especially where they have not upheld their legal duty to ensure the details associated with an account are real?

And what about the police? Do they not have a duty to act in a timely manner when provided with information that could help prevent a crime?

We are not sure what steps to take next. Any advice, greatly appreciated.

Rob

Don't consider me an expert on banking or the law, but I did spend all my working life in a UK bank, though not the domestic side. Before you pull a face I'll state clearly that I do not sympathise readily with banks and am very much 'old school' and believe they should operate ethically, honestly and fairly.

The situation you describe is appallingly common and is not something the banks or police should consider is none of their business. It's very much their business and brings them both in to disrepute. i can't promise that I can provide you with a 'magic solution' but I can offer some advice on how to 'kick butt' and raise a stink in a well aimed, strategic and legal manner.

Technically the bank is correct, until the point at which you put them on alert that a crime has been committed. They would normally wish to keep clear of anything that represents a dispute between two parties and is a civil matter. The same applies even when this is a crime (mostly), but if there is any evidence that their action or failure to act properly and in accordance with legislation or has facilitated the ability to perform a fraud, a banker will squirm uncomfortably. That is your dagger in the ribs to make them sympathetic to you. Don't be hysterical about it, it's important to know what your best card is, but not to overplay it.

Put in a formal written letter of complaint to the bank - headed 'Letter of Complaint' and send it recorded delivery and mention all that you know regarding the name on the account which was used in the fraud and insist they confirm that have complied with all 'KYC' legislation (legal banking requirement) and ask them to give you the real identity of their customer to enable you to pursue them legally. I'm not saying this for you to take legal action, but to challenge them to admit they messed up, which opens a door. If they refuse, they're blocking your ability to recover stolen money - effectively protecting a fraudster and money launderer.

Making a complaint costs nothing - only your time and mail costs, but UK banks HAVE to deal with them within time limits and, if they don't satisfy you or respond, you can then take it to the FOS, and as your complaint progresses, you can make clear that's where you'll take it. Taking it there costs you nothing, but it does cost the bank.

I can guide you through it and assist if necessary - I'm a serial complainer and have legendary status, if I do say so myself. The last government Ombudsman who dared disagree with me I left in a flaming wreck, and I set an MP who is a QC on them stating they were wrong both in law and fact - I won.

There's no magic bullet, but if you feel aggrieved and want to make those involved take responsibility, this is what you must do. Other avenues to explore are your Police Commissioner and MP - don't be afraid to use them - it's what they're paid for, but start how I suggest, if you don't want to feel the humiliation of just being fobbed off.

Save your e-mails and all your records. Establish the facts. Kick up a fuss - but in a measured, and targeted manner. If you get angry, you lose power. Be calm, ruthless and relentless.

I'm only a pm away.

Don't post any facts or details on the open forum, but your case is helped by how obvious it is that the scammer was using a fake name. Some examples that have been posted here in the past are outrageous, and in 'banking playschool' a favourite one used as an example is someone being allowed to open an account in the name of 'H M Revenue'.

Different and more stringent rules apply to business accounts, and opening one in the name of, or impersonating, a major corporation, is worthy of prosecution, in my opinion (the bank that is). Identities in all cases have to be confirmed by UK and international law - no exceptions. A bank could theoretically lose its licence if it doesn't properly comply with this legislation, but we're still waiting. However, banks are vulnerable at present and even a minor case as an example of general laxity would be harmful to them.

http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=48793&p=150115#p150115

For the record, another example where Barclays appear transfixed by apathy.

I'll look up the list of shame that another poster compiled some time.

Great, thanks very much for your help. We are drafting the complaint letter as discussed. It is shocking to see that a bank already embroiled in scandal in terms of Libor rate fixing and a 'Tax Avoidance' branch - who's worse, the fraudsters of the bank!

Here's the thread where a list of Barclays Bank accounts are detailed

http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=64630&p=148876&hilit=Barclays+Bank#p148876

Another here - another business account

http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&p=135350

There are some tricky ramifications here regarding fraud and payments to a bank and the operation of business and private accounts and the banks should know by seeing it. If my weekly stipend off the government was suddenly transformd into receiving large cheques from different people they would be looking at me closely. Even more so if I was drawing out in cash. That's what these accounts are doing. Now here comes the crux of the matter. You can report a fraud when you discover you have been conned but if you discover the stolen money has gone to an account and then unavailable for you to get it back or get bank to stop it then consider if it is there, or has been withdrawn as cash. It has become the proceeds of crime and immediately becomes a different avenue. You informed the bank the money received was stolen and now they know it is the proceeds of crime and any withdrawal becomes money laundering which is a different crime and now moves from fraud report which can't be dealt with, to money laundering which can. The Bank has a legal requirement to submit a report to the Serious Organised Crime Agency, Financial Intelligence Unit under the Proceeds of Crime Act. Failing to submit that report is a criminal offence. So you now also have a big stick because you reported it to the Bank. They know it is there and so they cannot fail to fulfil their obligation and report it. I don't think that they can then condone the act of drawing it out since it may be sent to Nigeria by Western Union, in other words- laundered.
A SOCA report has only 2 threads, Proceeds of Crime Act and Supporting Terrorism. Most reports will be submitted under the first one, and the latter one will be only a suspicion, but you can file suspicions because that's for the FIU to check out. It would be unwise to go the second way without due evidence that you submit in the report boxes. The report boxes are all about suspicion and evidence such as details of money transfer and withdrawals. You can ask the Bank directly if a SOCA report was filed.They have a dedicated authority who is responsible for this. Ask them who it is. You can look at SOCA Website and fore-arm yourself. If they tell you "No we didn't" ask them why not. You can tell them they are breaking the law because you notified them of a possible crime. Powerful stuff indeed.
Bear in mind a report may include your transaction as part of the suspicion about the operating of the bank account. It is for the bank to examine that suspicion along with the other transactions going through and subsequenty file a report based on what they can see. They can also do so if they think there are future transactions that will be suspicious.

Interesting and useful comments began steele and they will be of assistance as this issue is pursued.

The efforts we put in trying to shut down scammers' websites is wasted if similar efforts aren't made by those responsible to deal with the money laundering issue.

Banks can act if they are of a mind to, as I recall a situation where a bank refused to honour a valid bank draft it had issued for a large amount which was not counterfeit, because it had been put on alert that it was part of a fraud. The other party was told to sue if they wanted the money - they didn't.

I wouldn't seek to tell a bank how to behave (much as I would wish) but I wouldn't expect to see the same accounts being reported as being involved in fraud time and gain over a period of months. Having experience of banking (from a bygone age not so far back in time) I am appalled, on behalf of the victims and the reputation of banking (if any is left). Simply, m/l rules represent the laws of the land and form part of the job. Anyone who can't apply them should try another business where m/l rules aren't involved.

As a side issue this demonstrates that bank drafts aren't as good as cash and they can be stopped.

The SOCA rules seem to suggest that you can't make a report as a member of the public. I assume that means pertaining to yourself. When you register you become a reporting authority and you can add delegated people to your reporting activity. An accountant could register and then add someone to do the reports with a password of their own under your flag of registration. However you can't both be on the report form editing at the same time. I registered with no problems and by the nature of my report- it was a third party report- which I think is the nature of the system, and you report what you think you see going on. Deciding if what you see is a crime isn't your decision. You just fill boxes. I will edit my finalised report copy and post it. I can't post it freely as it is "restricted" which means I can't communicate the report to others publicly and also means I can't and don't own it any more. It belongs to the Police and Home Office. I was reporting money laundering to Nigeria and victims money moving from UK to the EU to a bank account from where the mule transferred it to Nigeria. I did it under proceeds of crime even if there was a supporting terrorism aspect. The laundering is of course overseas and that's the point, because the fraud is a local crime and the laundering an international one. Of course sending the dosh straight to Nigeria isn't laundering, it is fraud and as you can see it is bit of a mess in these days when you can't talk to a policeman.

The victim of a crime has other avenues open to him, and incentive and justification to use them.

You're not wrong began. This is just a different circumstance.

Thanks for this to all who posted, I've learned more about the banking system in the last 5 minutes of reading, than in the last 5 years being a customer.

Sorry if it is large. You can right click to see the whole image. I left out a middle section that repeats according to the submission you make. At top right you get two choices, Proceeds of Crime 2002 or Terrorism.