Craigslist, Ebay and other online buying/selling scams.
by agentdenim Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:21 pm
Hello ScamWarners and thank you for your time.

Today I sold via eBay buy-it-now an iPad2. When all the auction and payment info came through I found three different names on the correspondence. The emails were real, and PayPal does indeed show I've been paid (albeit funds unavailable, as they think my selling history is too poor to warrant letting me have my money right away).
The buyer of this item is unverified via paypal. The auction was won by John Moss, paid for by Shaun Brown, and is to be shipped to Peoria, Arizona, to Robert Ayoub (no addresses for the other two). Should I just refund the payment and bail on this sale? This looks suspicious to me but I am jaded and suspicious of everyone. I emailed PayPal and eBay, as well as two other sellers that have sold to this buyer before. The buyer has been on a bit of a spree, purchasing several digital SLR cameras (two from the same seller), to which a photographer friend of mine wondered, "who needs that many high-end DSLRs?"

Thank you,
- A
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by agentdenim Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:58 pm
Update, "buyer" contacted through ebay and he responded with the same shipping address, with the name Shaun Brown (and the address in all caps). This communication though eBay directly, where the name on the account is John Moss.
Reverse lookup on the address gives two female names, Stacey Richards or Stacey Bassler, or a company called T & G Drywall (that has several phone numbers). Wonder if I should call?
by Helen Halper Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:04 pm
Welcome to Scamwarners, agentdenim!
If you are feeling suspicious, it's better to let this sale go. Unless you can be paid first, money in hand, don't send your ipad.
Would you please post one of the emails, including the headers. We might be able to see where it was sent from. Also, please post the name of the shipping company and we can see if it's real.

by agentdenim Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:18 pm
Hi Helen and Justin,

I'm confident the emails are real - I logged in to both eBay and PayPal to verify the purchase was real and the payment was real. What I worry about is if I ship item, then buyer files a complaint with PayPal, who then issues them a refund but doesn't force them to send the item back to me. I have seen some reports of this happening recently circulating. I looked up the ship to address and it has a few women's names on it, I know that doesn't mean much BUT they aren't even close to the names on this transaction; and a business associated to the address, with phone numbers. I Thought about calling and seeing if any of the names are valid for that address, but then think if I'm this worried, just bail - issue a refund, don't ship. If eBay has a fit about it, I'll deal with it. Right?
Thanks!!
by Justin Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:43 pm
I believe PayPal/eBay will not hold you responsible for paying back the money due to fraudulant charges as part of their seller protection assuming you meet the requirements for the coverage.

Regardless I agree it sounds shady. Moraly I would not feel comforatable continuing the transaction. You might try contacting Paypal/eBay giving them the transaction details asking then to verify the buyers account security with its owner.

by agentdenim Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:55 pm
Thanks for the advice, all. On recommendation of a friend, I called eBay and explained my concerns at length.

They were very nice to look into the transaction for me, and they believe that it should be safe to complete the sale. They recommended getting good photographic and video evidence of the condition of the item when packing and shipping, requesting signature confirmation on the shipping (to prove delivery), and at that point if there are any complaints about the product eBay will cover them under the Buyer/Seller Protection Policy. They did verify payment was in fact made via PayPal, who is simply holding the funds for 3 days because I have no recent sales history and have not yet shipped the device.
Still going to sleep on it though and decide in the morning...
by David Jansen Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:37 am
It's a paypal scam. Paypal doesn't put funds "on hold" untill the item is shipped. Look at paypal as the mail service. You send money to someone via paypal, and they deliver it, just like the mail company delivers the mail. Paypal knows nothing about where the money is meant for, nor do they know about your item being shipped. Some scammers are very good at making false paypal emails. Did this scammer have a website?

Being a victim doesn't mean you stand alone. We're here to help you.
by agentdenim Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:06 am
Hi David,
no website at all. The emails I received were from ebay indicating the item was purchased via paypal, and from paypal indicating an ebay purchase was made. Here are the email headers (note I have one email address, denim@ forwarding to another, agentdenim@):

EBay email:
Code: Select allDelivered-To: [email protected]
Received: by 10.231.114.39 with SMTP id c39csp6445ibq;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:34:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.68.200.234 with SMTP id jv10mr1222081pbc.17.1330504456837;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:34:16 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received: from mxphxpool27.ebay.com (mxphxpool27.ebay.com. [66.211.161.27])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id t6si3524878pbl.132.2012.02.29.00.34.16;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:34:16 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of [email protected] designates 66.211.161.27 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.211.161.27;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of [email protected] designates 66.211.161.27 as permitted sender) [email protected]; dkim=pass (test mode) [email protected]
Received: from px-wh04-915lhe0 (px-wh04-915lhe0.phx.ebay.com [10.2.102.97])
   by mxphxpool27.ebay.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q1T8Y6ec003968
   for <[email protected]>; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:34:16 -0700 (GMT)
X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.3 mxphxpool27.ebay.com q1T8Y6ec003968
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ebay.com; s=dkim;
   t=1330504456; bh=tMh6yIf4veMNYPt7WKrFz+mxfFQ=;
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=dksm28; d=ebay.com; c=nofws; q=dns;
   h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:
   content-type:x-ebay-mailtracker:x-ebay-mailversiontracker;
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Message-ID: <2079030251.1330504456336.JavaMail.SYSTEM@px-wh04-915lhe0>
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:34:16 -0700 (MST)
From: eBay <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Your eBay item sold! Apple iPad 2 16GB, Wi-Fi, 9.7in - Black (MC769LL/A) + cover/case (140713037971)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=1373852131.1330504456336.JavaMail.SYSTEM.px-wh04-915lhe0
X-eBay-MailTracker: 12011.763.0.0.51e99e725a4d424a89941d2f9a402496
X-eBay-MailVersionTracker: 763.14491348

--1373852131.1330504456336.JavaMail.SYSTEM.px-wh04-915lhe0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----------------------------------------------------------------
eBay sent this message to Aric ... (killerfrog).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay.
Learn more at http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/name-userid-emails.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Congratulations, your item sold-get ready to ship!
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi killerfrog,
You did it! Your item sold. Please ship this item to the buyer after your buyer pays.


PayPal email:
Code: Select allDelivered-To: [email protected]
Received: by 10.231.114.39 with SMTP id c39csp6488ibq;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:35:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.50.76.130 with SMTP id k2mr21018830igw.22.1330504555486;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:35:55 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net. [74.208.4.194])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id mi9si9673427igc.70.2012.02.29.00.35.55;
        Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:35:55 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 74.208.4.194 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of [email protected]) client-ip=74.208.4.194;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 74.208.4.194 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of [email protected]) [email protected]; dkim=pass [email protected]
Received-SPF: pass (mxus3: domain of paypal.com designates 66.211.168.230 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.211.168.230; [email protected]; helo=mx0.phx.paypal.com;
Received: from mx0.phx.paypal.com (mx0.phx.paypal.com [66.211.168.230])
   by mx.perfora.net (node=mxus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis)
   id 0LvV63-1ST5eD2LVT-00ztL4 for [email protected]; Wed, 29 Feb 2012 03:35:54 -0500
DomainKey-Signature: q=dns; a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
   s=dkim; d=paypal.com;
   h=DKIM-Signature:Received:Date:Message-Id:Subject:X-MaxCode-Template:To:From:X-Email-Type-Id:X-XPT-XSL-Name:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version;
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DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=paypal.com; s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed;
   q=dns/txt; [email protected]; t=1330504554;
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   CMtXvo2fMwafjSSsPEpynQ5cz8Q7fY5V+hpeYsCv/2M=;
Received: (qmail 15020 invoked by uid 993); 29 Feb 2012 08:35:53 -0000
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:35:53 -0800
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Subject: You received a payment from your buyer - Ship now
X-MaxCode-Template: email-external-hold
To: Aric Campling <[email protected]>
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
X-Email-Type-Id: PP1344
X-XPT-XSL-Name: email_pimp/default/en_US/merchant/EbayHoldsFundsHeld.xsl
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
MIME-Version: 1.0

Transaction ID: 25965935U..........
https://www.paypal.com/us/vst/id=25965935U.........
Transaction Time: 2/29/2012 00:35 PST

----------------------------------------------------------------------
You received a payment from your buyer - Ship now
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Aric,

You've received a payment of $475.00 USD from moss6215 ([email protected]) for your recent eBay sale.
by agentdenim Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:42 am
Here's paypal new escrow-like terms of service for eBay auctions:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd= ... learn_more

"PayPal is committed to helping encourage fast shipping and consistent customer service from sellers so that buyers have a great experience when they shop. As part of this effort, for some eBay sellers who are establishing a successful selling history, funds from their eBay sales will be pending in their PayPal account for up to 21 days before the funds become available. This applies to items listed and sold on eBay.com, eBay.ca, and cafr.eBay.ca"

When I called ebay they said that even though I have an established sales history, it's effectively nullified by the fact that I haven't bought or sold anything on ebay for over 12 months and therefore my ratings was reset to zero.
by Justin Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:51 am
As a point of correction PayPal may hold a sellers payment from a buyer on an eBay purchase if the seller is a new seller without positive feedback or if the seller does not have additional funds in their PayPal account to cover a possible reversal of the sale. This is done to protect buyers.

However as David pointed out scammers do a similar scam where they send spoof PayPal emails saying payment for an item (most common sales on Craigslist and similar) is on hold until the seller sends a tracking number or sends money to a shipper. This situation IS a scam. Always log directly into Paypals website and do not follow links from the spoofed emails. As David said they can be very convincing fakes. Often with hot linked images to the real PayPal site.

by agentdenim Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:07 am
Understood!
So, ebay says sale is likely valid. PayPal, logged in directly, indicates the payment is valid for the linked auction, and is simply on hold because I have no recent sales history on eBay. Seller has confirmed the same address both in eBay and in PayPal, the only thing off are the names used.
eBay, in a phone call, says as long as I get signature confirmation and photographic/video evidence the device is packed and shipped in the condition advertised, I'm covered under buyer protection policy.
PayPal website says this transaction is covered under seller protection policy, for basically the same requirements: signature proof of delivery or pick-up; well-documented evidence that item is packed and shipped in exactly the condition it was advertised (which it will be). I also have no fewer than 10 witnesses as to the condition of the device - the people who gave it to me, my co-workers, and the post office worker will witness too. Heck, I'll go to my bank and get a notarized letter attesting condition if need be. :-)

The only fishy smell is a different name on the ebay acct, the payer record in paypal, and the initial ship-to address in paypal. On followup messaging through ebay, the ebay buyer changed the name on the ship-to address to match the payer's name used in paypal.

....
by Dotti Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:45 am
It sounds as if you should be protected if you take the proper precautions.

As far as the "on-hold" thing goes, I do want to clarify:

Scammers like to pretend that Paypal is holding your money until you provide evidence of shipping or of sending money to the fake shipper, or they claim that paypal holds money until the buyer can evaluate the item. These are completely false claims. Paypal does not get into the middle of transactions like this. When scammers make this claim and send you a fake paypal confirmation, you can log into paypal and you will see nothing added to your account.



When paypal "holds" money with a new seller, it is not the same thing. Paypal credits the money to your account immediately. When you log into paypal, you can see that the money is received, and the payment details. Paypal simply does not allow you to use or withdraw the money until a certain waiting period has passed. This is the same thing that will happen if you are in the middle of a dispute over a transaction.

Paypal's hold is to protect themselves. Without a hold, there is nothing to prevent scammers from creating new accounts, posting and selling fake nonexistent items, and taking the money out right away, before the buyer realizes that nothing was sent. In that situation, the buyer would be able to reverse the transaction, and paypal would lose the money. Their hold is equivalent to a bank holding a check you deposited before letting you take out the cash (only the waiting period is a little longer).

Need to post photos? http://scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3219
Are you a victim of a romance scam? Read here for advice and FAQ's.

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